A critique of the ctritic – Justin Peters

Justin Peters

 

I wanted to make some clarifying comments here after this post.  I received some criticism about this post from my fellow believers at church.  It could be that I am straining at a gnat here in some respects.  Justin Peters is doing the church a good thing and a difficult thing.  He is calling out error and false teachers and we need to hear that.  I am in no way trying to discourage or disparage Justin or his listeners.  A point of clarity came to mind as I was being challenged by my brothers.  My definition of “a liar” includes intent.  In other words, I don’t think that someone that is saying something that is actually false but who believes it is true is a “liar”.  More accurately the speaker is simply wrong, deceived and in error, but he is not an intentional liar. If that were the case “let all men be liars and God the only true witness”.  We all are full of error and probably most of what we believe about things is incomplete or erroneous in some way.  I am personally very tired of seeing division creeping into the church because of people ascribing intent that cannot be known.  We are to judge rightly but we can only judge that which we can see and sense.  This is why the due process of scripture (Matthew 18) tells us to confront the person we have a problem with directly before we go talking to everyone else about our problem.  I haven’t discussed this blog post with Justin Peters, perhaps I should.  I hope my criticism has not offended or hurt Justin’s ministry in any way.  Our enemy is the accuser.  No one is innocent but Christ, so let’s just not throw stones at the intentions of people without careful thought and proof of intent.  Actions and words can an should be judged – lets hold the line there.  Implications of a word can go far beyond the intent of the word. So far this post has had 42 views including my own, so I don’t think I am threatening Justin’s ministry here.  It is merely an opinion, feel free to sprinkle it with all the salt it needs.

Our church decided to show Justin Peter’s video “Clouds Without Water” where he critiques the “Word of Faith” movement.
Firstly, I want to say that Justin does a great job of showing much of the hypocrisy and lies of the many faith-healing ministers such as Benny Hinn and Joel Olstean and many others.

Justin is lightly afflicted with cerebral palsy.  This has led him to seek healing through his faith and through faith-healers and he has been disappointed.

Though I can agree with many of his points of evidence, I have a difficult time dealing with his conclusions and extrapolations from his evidence.  His logic skips the necessary steps to prove his conclusions.  Instead, he finds a contradiction and then assumes: The speaker is perfectly aware of the contradiction: The speaker is speaking precisely: and therefore he is a liar – and thus not a Christian – and thus a false prophet – … so on to hell.

For example, Justin criticizes the immensely popular devotional “Jesus Calling“, a copy of which my wife has and one I took some time today to review from Justin’s perspective.  His criticism here is that so many people are reading devotionals instead of the Bible.  His point is that anyone that writes words attributed to God is “adding to scripture” and therefore changing the cannon.  And we all know the admonitions in Deuteronomy and Revelation to not add to or take away from the word of God.  Thus Sarah Young (the author) is likely going to a special place hotter than most.

Another was quoting a female TV evangelist that said she prayed away a storm she saw from the window of her plane.  Justin then assumes she is claiming blanket control of the weather and suggest perhaps she should be sued for allowing Katrina to happen and points out her contradiction of saying she doesn’t fly in bad weather – something a person that controls the weather would not need to worry about.  But look at this closely.  The bible says for us not to assume the future – even if we think we have control over it.  The lady was simply testifying that she prayed and a storm she saw dissipated – that is not a lie.  It is her true testimony of a perceived fact.  Her message was meant to impart faith – belief in something you have no physical (or logical sometimes) evidence of.  She never said she could control the weather.

Actually, I take that back, she kind of did say that, I didn’t remember it as accurately as I should have.  She did say “you are the weather man” implying that we ALL control the weather.  Giving her (Joyce Meyer I think) the benefit of the doubt tells me she must mean that collectively we all influence the weather with our intentions.  She could be meaning that with all sincerity – which is why I take exception to Justin publically calling her a liar – see my definition of the term at the top of this post.  I personally can’t know for absolutely certain that our thoughts do or do not effect the weather.  See these stories for an interesting data point on this idea:http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Weather_Control#Accidental_Weather_Modification

It is true that TV evangelists often draw general conclusions they shouldn’t, but in all honesty, I sometimes have a hard time drawing any conclusion I couldn’t misinterpret or pick apart.

Justin says he is a cessationist which means he believes that all prophecy is completed and that apostolic miracles are no longer in effect.  He however gives no evidence for that conclusion except to note that the miracles in acts seem to abruptly stop after Acts 19.

This logic condemns all prophecy as false.  Worse, it equates a personal message from God as the equivalent to scripture.  He might as well say there is absolutely no communication from God to man under any circumstances other than the English Cannon of scripture and Nature.  This approaches deist mentality and I think is equally as erroneous as his opponents are whom he accuses of claiming deity over God.

There is a very fine line between being a faithful follower, and taking God for granted.  It’s a very hard line to stay on.  We walk blindly and rightly in constant fear of God – which is exactly where He want’s us.

I have no problem with Justin’s beliefs for himself – he is quite orthodox along the lines of the Baptist denomination.  Everyone has to draw some conclusions simply to function.  I know a few other people from this background and they seem to have the same very black and white, wooden logic about what truth is – but then they are very secure in their faith and nobody is going to throw them off easily.

Jesus was constantly throwing his followers for loops because he was talking of spiritual matters simply beyond their experience.  He was equally attacked by people that couldn’t see the truth of his apparently heretical and contradictory statements.

Now I am not trying to introduce doubt and confusion into anyone’s beliefs.  Truth is very difficult to find and criticizing each other (without due process and solid logic) just compounds the difficulty of finding it.  Justin has to wonder if he could be bordering on blaspheming the Holy Spirit – that is, ascribing miracles to Satan that may in fact be the work of the Holy Spirit.  Humility is really our only safe abode.

The Bible contains many outright contradicting ideas.  Things like absolute sovereignty vs free will, One God in 3 persons, prophecies with multiple fulfillments, prophets that are false that none-the-less give true prophecies and show signs and miracles.

There are entire sets of theology, all academically supported, all contradicting each other, and all logically valid given their premises.  See Steve Gregg’s excellent work “Four views of Revelation” for some concrete examples. This work, by itself, has added serious doubt to my mind as to my ability to interpret most of scripture correctly.

With these combinations of contradictions it becomes really tough to say that anything is just TRUE on its face.  The table is solid, unless you look at the atomic level.  Germs are bad unless you notice that without them we would be dead.  The three witnesses of that car crash that all saw the same thing are contradicting each other…

This is not to say that there is not truth.  To say so is logically absurd and defeats all purpose in life and creation.  There is truth and God is truth – He’s just a lot higher than we are.

Justin does raise some very good information that we should all be aware of.  Many TV evangelists are twisting scripture to make money and their fruit is clearly visible for all to see that they don’t deserve the kind of following they get.  They even go so far as to make God their genie and invoke him as a sorcerer would invoke spirits.  This is certainly worthy of exposure.

When I learned that the Hebrew word for evil is RA and that the paleo-Hebrew letters literally mean Man’s will over God’s, I stumbled upon a very clear vision that helps me in discernment.  Jesus said that all men are evil and only the father is good.

People are really very gray things.  We all have our bias and hurts and our tongues are impossible to control.  Perhaps Justin Peters is being more effective by accusing others of satanic beliefs where any shadow of doubt exists – but there is no place safe to hide.  Even the beloved King James bible has many well-known errors in translation.  As we continue to unearth more ancient copies of the scriptures and other books we find that our times are full of new knowledge that the experts of the past simply had no access to.  At some point, revision of our views is necessary in order to pursue truth truthfully.

Hold on to what is good, but don’t miss the newer truths being revealed every day simply due to more evidence.  Our trial of truth is never over and our sanctification isn’t either till death stops our pursuits of learning and the ultimate truth find’s us – unchanged as it is and never fully found despite our very best efforts to do so.

Which is why we can’t find God – He simply has to find us.

Advertisements

About sanfords

Ex Microsoft Dev for 20 years. Currently retired at my ranch in Idaho near Kooskia. I like coaching Chess for kids so let me know if you are interested in those services.
This entry was posted in Books, Theology. Bookmark the permalink.

62 Responses to A critique of the ctritic – Justin Peters

  1. Kk says:

    Hello, I just came across your blog. I live in Ghana and also recently heard of Justin Peters seminar. I find it hard to understand what is so unclear to you.

    The truth about what God’s will is is very clear in scripture and is simple enough for even children who approach it with humility. Obviously, there are portions of Scripture like Revelation that contain symbolic language that no one will fully understand this side of heaven. The main thing we do know is Christ is coming back for His bride and that the devil and sin will all one day be done away with.

    However, apart from those books, things like prayer, how God speaks to us, prophecy, healing etc are very clear in Scripture. We are exposed more than most to these false claims over here in West Africa. I didn’t even know about all these people like MacArthur and Peters and the like but when I was saved something immediately felt wrong with what was going on in the various churches I attended simply by comparing it to my bible so I don’t agree they have simply gathered like-minded people but rather it seems the Holy Spirit is granting a similar discernment to people all over.

    I pray you throw out all your own preconceptions and pray asking God to show you as you make your way through the Word. I’m sure we will find that what is being claimed today falls way short of what we saw God doing and I wouldn’t want to accuse God of His power waning over the years.

    All the best

    • sanfords says:

      It’s not clear to what part of this long post you have a problem with. My main point was that Justin was judging people without knowing their intentions. His interpretations of their actions was tainted by pre-judgment – that’s all I meant to say.

      • Adrian says:

        Justin Peters is right on the nose. I have watched all of his seminars and what is obviously “clear”…… these prosperity preachers know exactly what they are “doing”… only Justin Peters is the only person I have ever heard speak (and also attend these prosperity preacher services) about pointing these tv evangelists and their wrong-doing out into the open, no one else wants to even mention them (except Oprah who has nothing but admiration and praise) and their insistent wrong words, wrong preaching, wrong faith! Tell your wife to throw away every copy of ‘Jesus Calling’….That book is a fake attempt of christianity and you do not want fake christian “anything” in your home. Stuff like Joyce Meyer and anything with Ostein, burn it and run from it. It is not anything close to being biblical. That stuff leads away from Christ not to it!!

    • Geir says:

      Justin Peters is a false teacher. He states that the spiritual gifts is no longer in use in the Church. This is obviously not right. All christian churches are acknowlegdes and using the gifts. This and other things, brings Peters a place very near Jehovas Witnesses:

      http://justinpeters.org/1171-2/

  2. I have to agree with most of your assessment of Justin peters. I am a Senior Pastor of a small congregation in central Florida. I have been in the ministry for over 30 years and have been the Senior Pastor of four churches in three different states. I believe strongly that everyone who stands to preach and teach God’s word must rightly divide the word. I teach an eschatology class every Wednesday night called “The Rapture Ready Club” and we study nothing but end times prophecies as well as look at current events that are going on around the world that fall in line with the prophecies of the last days. Concerning the end times Jesus talked more about false prophets and false Christ’s that would come more than He spoke about wars and rumors of wars famines and earthquakes. In the course of our study we have shown a couple of Justin peters videos concerning the Word of Faith movement. I personally believe that the Word of Faith preachers and teachers are part of the false prophets that Jesus warned us about in Matthew chapter 7:21-23. I would have to agree with much of Justin peters assessment of this group. I certainly do not believe that Jesus Christ died and went to hell and had to be born again as the Word of Faith movement teaches. I also do not believe that we are little gods as the Word of Faith preachers and teachers teach as well as several other doctrines that the Word of Faith movement proclaims because they do not line up with Scripture.

    However, I believe Justin Peters takes his critique way too far when he throws Charismatic and Pentecostals in the same basket as the Word of Faith movement. For example, Justin makes it clear that he does not believe that all of the gifts of the Spirit are in operation today because he believes and teaches the doctrine of cessation that is common amongst many Baptists. Justin goes on to say that he especially does not believe the gift of healing, the gift of speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues and prophecy are for today. Justin also states that those who practice these things not only are in error but he also equates some of the manifestations that are going on in Charismatic and Pentecostal churches as nothing different than what goes on with Hindus. Justin states that Hindus speak in tongues, shake and are slain in the spirit more than any church or movement. In other words what Mr. Peters is stating is that those who are used in speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, the gift of prophecy and the gift of healing are no different than the cultic type manifestations of the Hindus. According to Justin Peters because these gifts are not for today they are not from God so therefore we must conclude they are coming from Satan.

    As a born again believer who loves Jesus and also a Pentecostal Preacher, I personally take great offense to Justin peters assessment of the gifts of the spirit. I personally have not only experienced being filled with the spirit and speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues but of also have witnessed many documented healings. Although there have been abuses of the Gifts of the Spirit especially tongues and interpretation as well as there have been fabricated prophecies and healings, to say that all of these manifestations are not from God but are to be attributed to the devil is crossing the line. I can only assume although very sincere Justin Peters has some anger and he has created a vendetta towards those churches who believe in the gifts of the spirit including divine healing because he himself did not receive healing for his body. There are times when God does not heal and I do not question as to why for God is sovereign and he will always do that which is his perfect will. However once again I have witnessed several divine miracles including healings that only brought glory and honor to the Lord Jesus Christ.

    It is my firm assessment that Justin peters has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I would caution anyone especially pastors and Bible teachers to be very careful in showing Justin Peters videos to their congregations as his critique has crossed far beyond the boundaries of what truly is of God and that which is not. To call anyone who has experienced the afterlife a liar is also going way too far. Do people lie, do they fabricate stories to make money absolutely. However to say that everyone and anyone who has experienced the afterlife and came back to talk about it is a liar is simply irresponsible of Justin Peters. There have been several documented cases where individuals had died and their hearts had stopped for several minutes and they experienced a glimpse of heaven and some even of judgment. Many of these people don’t want to share their stories for they know they not only will be ridiculed by unbelievers but they will also be judged as liars by those in the church like Justin Peters.

    I will conclude by saying Justin peters is a bright young man and he is very sincere and I personally believe he has a message that the church needs to hear today concerning false prophets and teachers. However he would do well to stick to those things that can be clearly supported with scripture and not those things that do not fit his own personal theology.

    • Betty says:

      Pastor David French, I just read your comments about Justin Peters. I totally agree with all you have shared. While I am thankful he has exposed the false teachings of the Word of Faith Movement, I too feel he has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. My background is Baptist-Pentecostal. I feel he has slammed the door on the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will not go where He is not welcomed. I have worked with children who have Cerebral Palsy. If I had Cerebral Palsy, I would pray daily for Divine Healing. I believe the Lord has His timing for each of us. I believe He brings us to a point, where we are ready to receive our Healing. It may be on this Earth, or it may be in Heaven. But for me, this side of Heaven, I would never, never stop praying for a Miracle. I have witnessed His Divine Healing Power, and I know it is real!!!!

    • Jack Church says:

      Pastor French, I was planning to leave a comment, however it appears you wrote my exact thoughts. I actually feel sorry and will pray for Justin. It seems as though his efforts to expose false teaching could be better served through simply following Jesus.

      Jack Church

  3. sanfords says:

    I am honored that you commented. Though I make the assertion that JP has prejudged some people, at the same time, I am not out to bury the man. He is my brother and I want to give all people the benefit of the doubt – after all, I will be judged by the measure I judge others.

  4. Absolutely! I agree with you on that!

  5. I have been on both sides of the Word of Faith movement following Hagin in my early years as a Christian and I agree with 90% of what Justin Peters says. He is not even sarcastic nor disrespectful in his tone towards these false teachers. If these false preachers in the word of faith movement are off base I think it is essential to get the word out. Many ppl are disillusioned by these doctrines and by the lack of control over their own lives. If these word of faith ppl were telling us the truth wouldn’t it always work or is that too black and white?
    As one who stood in a marriage with an adulterous unbeliever for five and one-half years can tell you while the ppl around me who followed these word of faith teachers said just keep standing bc God has promised to bring him home and they were exceedingly incorrect. The main problem with the word of faith is the denial of what’s really going on in one’s life and the constant dancing and lying one has to tell oneself. It’s quite exhausting.
    As for Justin Peters teaching against the gifts – do you not know he is Baptist or Southern Baptist and almost none of them believe in the gifts in any shape or form. What I’m saying is it’s not surprising to hear him not endorse the gifts.

    • sanfords says:

      An unsurprising error is still an error. The gifts are manifest over the globe and are undeniable. Anyone IMHO who still asserts that the gifts have ceased is “in denial of what’s really going on”.
      Once again, this original post was merely an attempt at a gentle respectful correction, not condemnation of Peters.

  6. Aron says:

    I found out about Peters some weeks ago. And i’m 100% sure that he is right about the Word of Faith movement. When i started to read the bible and completely gave myself to the Lord and his will, he showed me that pretty quick and i could no longer attend my church since it’s very much Word of Faith and not so much bible.

    About Peters take on the gift i can’t agree with him! I do agree on that there is no more Prophets and Apostles with capital P and A today, not as an office that speaks with the same authority as the word of God and that comes with new “revelations”. There is no new revelations, the bible is complete, but today God illuminates his word to us and it will always line up with the bible. The office of Prophet and Apostle should not be confused with the gift though, i do believe that the gifts is active today. But the gifts is not the same as the office. There are prophecies today but you most always test those in the Word of God, if it do not line up with the bible it’s not of God.

    The gift of healing is active but not in the sense that you should visit people with the gift and they shall touch you and you will be healed by there touch(as the word of faith preachers), healing comes through prayer. As for the gift of tongues it is very misused today. I do agree with Peters that if we practices that in the public it shall be interpreted too and done like Paul describes it.

    But the gifts is for sure active though many people abuse them, and we must always compare everything today to the bible and see if it lines up with it and pray that God shows us the truth not man. Cessationism is to take it a step too far. That’s my take on it.

    Sorry for my grammar, English is not my native language.

    • sanfords says:

      The office of Prophet was something related to Israel. Outside that context I only think you can say the gift of prophecy exists. The office of Apostle has been abused in that many today hold such a title in some denominations but their definition of the word doesn’t fit the original 12 (- judas + paul). These were men chosen by God – it is not something anyone else can delegate or assume. In my mind there are only 12 Apostles and Mathias doesn’t qualify.
      As for healing only by prayer, scriptures testifies of Peter’s shadow healing people. No prayer necessary. Jesus also healed in many different ways, even over a distance. There is no formula for healing in my book. A very interesting book on this subject is “A More Excellent way to Be in Health” by Henry W. Wright. (see https://www.amazon.com/More-Excellent-Way-Health-Spiritual/dp/1603741011). This book so fascinated me by its balance and scriptural approach that I find it to be one of the best books on health I have ever read.

  7. Jesus is Lord says:

    Without faith it is impossible to please God and without faith the devil has you where he wants you! You are no threat to the kingdom of darkness due to lack of faith! Jesus is the same yesterday, today,and forever! Miracles are still happening especially in other countries where people dont have the technology and the good doctors and medicine to depend on so their faith in Jesus is so strong because they have no hope like us in the U.S. We dont receive healing because our faith is in the doctors more than on the prayers that could heal instantly in Jesus’ name like they did and are is still doing! Right away our thoughts are “well i will set an appointment anyways just incase this prayer doesnt work!” That is not faith! I believe thats what happened to Justin Peters when he didnt receive healing for cerebral palsy, he right away assumed the Word of Faith doesnt work just because it didnt work for him! Therefore Justin is making himself to be a false teacher because faith does work and healing miracles do work because i have seen them for myself and guess what Jesus is real! So what Justin Peters is pretty much saying is that God is a liar because without faith it is impossible to please God! Hebrews 11:6 Jesus was always getting on to his disciples for lack of faith! Just because a preacher is rich doesnt make him a false teacher or preacher especially a preacher who is pointing people to Jesus! All these people that Justin says are false teachers and preachers all talk about Jesus who is the only way to the Father so how can they be false? A false teacher is simply someone who denies Jesus as the only way to heaven or someone that says they are Jesus themselves but someone who is encouraging people about the goodness of God through Jesus Christ isnt a false teacher and being wealthy isnt a sin and actually poverty is a curse Dueteronomy 28! Brothers and sisters this Justin Peters guy reminds me of the disciples in Mark 9:38-41 when they saw someone they didnt know because he wasnt a part of that group casting out demons in Jesus’ name, they tried to stop him and Jesus rebuked them saying anyone who does a miracle in my name is for us not against us! Guess what brothers and sisters Justin and anyone who believes him is acting like the disciples especially when the preachers Justin is bad mouthing talk about Jesus and lead people to salvation! Just because you dont believe like they believe about prosperity doesnt make them a false teacher! Read the word of God prosperity is in the bible! Yes finances,health, relationships, and so much fall into that word prosperity! Jesus came to give us life and life in abundance John 10:10 not just life to get barely by! Without money you can never be a blessing to others or help anyone one because in reality you need money in this lifetime or you will not eat, have a home, and wouldnt be able to enjoy life like Jesus wants us to! The bible doesnt say money is the root of all evil! It says for the Love of money is the root of all evil! What you do for it and how u spend it is what makes it bad but lets let God be the judge on that!

    • sanfords says:

      Still, if a prophet or an apostle were to appear today – how would you recognize him with your standards for miracles and words of prophecy? Peter healed people who his shadow fell on – laying on of hands is thus not bionically necessary. Peter had no money and he blessed others. I know people without money that live fine. Satan loves these divisions between us. This was why I wrote this post in the first place. Let’s not condemn Justin either, let’s do our best to discern truth by diligent study of the word and work together for the kingdom!

    • sanfords says:

      Also, I don’t think it is the power of your “faith” so much as WHO you have your faith in. God is the only good, and really, the only truly faithful one. Having faith in Him is what works – because He works for our good and keeps his promises for His name sake.

  8. charlotte says:

    Justin Peters is absolutely right. He cites examples, in many cases the actual pastor speaking/preaching about things. He comes to conclusions based on their words. The Bible tells us to call out by name false teachers. It’s in the bible. Look it up. Paul called out false teachers by NAME. So there is a biblical precedence.

    There is NO division in Christianity. Confused? Here’s how I can say that: WoF people are NOT CHRISTIANS. It’s not up for debate. It’s a fact. Oh, they talk about Jesus, so they must be Christians? Know who else talks about Jesus a lot? Oh yeah, the Mormons do. But they aren’t Christians either. Personally I know that Justin Peters is right on in his views, and he is the ONLY ONE who is brave enough to stand up to these multi-billionaire-false prophets.
    If you don’t like it, well, too bad. The word of God is a sword. That’s in the bible too.

    If you read your bible and followed the Holy Spirit…. you would be convicted of the false teachers and false teachings yourself.
    If you truly believe Kenneth Copeland, Gloria Copeland (who according to her, and to you, I guess, in your endorsement of her, can change the weather …Puhleeze), Benny Hinn, Kreflo Dollar, Todd Bentley, Jesse Duplantis… ETC… If you think those men are men of God, ask yourself, why are they living like kings and queens and begging for money on TV from people that HAVE NO MONEY!?? It’s just plain sick and wrong what they are doing and God bless Justin for having the guts to say what no one else is brave enough to say.

    Justin Peters backs everything, every single one of his claims up with evidence. Maybe we weren’t watching the same seminar.

    God bless you…. and I pray that you yourself get discernment. Looks like you really need it.

    • sanfords says:

      There is definitely a line between what is Christian and what is not. But just try to describe that line accurately. Our fellowship was in unity for years and happy till we wrote down our belief statement. From that point on cases came up of people that didn’t measure up and slowly members were ejected till it collapsed. The problem is that the word can be applied to all things and there are a lot of different situations to apply it to. It’s the same problem we have administering justice. Everyone might agree “We should use Torah to define right and wrong” and then up comes a case where the evidence is blurred or contradictory or the application unclear. Believe me, I have read my bible – and I am confused exactly what it means all the time.
      “I saw an angel” – so testified by Joseph Smith, Mohamed, Many popes in the past, TV Evangelists, John, Peter, Paul and Mary and Jesus himself.
      So which of them saw an angel and which saw a daemon pretending to be an angel?
      You say I lack discernment – remember we see through a glass dimly my friend.

    • Try to confront with love instead of hostility.

    • Andre Botha says:

      Awesome post Sir. I agree with u 100%

  9. Bobby says:

    Exposing the Exposers

    It is with great concern and regret that I have noticed scores even hundreds of so called “Exposers” all over the internet including YouTube.

    I saddens me deep down in my spirit because the far majority of these posts are aimed at the Word of Faith television preachers spilling over to the Pentecostal movement.

    I found Jesus and received Him as my personal Savior in 1978 and He used the Pentecostal movement to do this, and for this I will be FOREVER GRATEFUL.

    Sadly for many years I was also arrogant and pointed my self righteous finger at anyone who was not a Pentecostal: Lord forgive me for all those wasted years.

    In my self righteous flesh I debated, argued and even destroyed the faith of many young Christians always thinking in my misplaced pride that I was doing God’s work.

    God is faithful and he brought me to my knees as only He could using the same method He used with Paul; a thorn in the flesh with the same answer ‘My grace is sufficient for you’ Thank you Lord for your grace.

    I have done some research and sadly found out that there are people Exposing these so called Word of Faith as “servants of Satan” and then there are people Exposing them and then people Exposing their Exposers and it goes on and on and on is a sickly satanic chain of superstition, slander and innuendos of which very little has any scriptural basis.

    My question is this; are the Exposers doing the work of God or not? But I will try and base my findings on scripture and not just my opinion however I do concede that I will base it on my opinion of the scripture

    1. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
    Ephesians 5:11 NKJV

    This is the only scripture in the new testament which even uses the word “expose” but strange enough it does not appear in the KJV here the word “reprove” is used (elegchō in Greek) this literally means rebuke and to rebuke someone we need to do it one on one to their face not behind their back on the internet using edited video clips which takes all context out of what us being said.

    But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
    Galatians 2:11 KJV

    But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
    Galatians 2:14 KJV

    Here we see Paul only reproving or withstanding Peter either in private or in front of those whom Peter had corrupted with his false doctrine. These were mislead Christians not pagans or unbelievers.

    When Appollos was teaching the wrong baptism Aquilla and Pracilla took the time to correct his teachings Acts 18:24-25
    When Paul came across some disciples who had been taught wrong by Apollos he did not “Expose” Him as a satanist or heretic he simply taught the disciples the correct baptism and then re – baptised them.

    • sanfords says:

      Matthew 18 is very clear. Confront personally, then with help, then publicly if they will not repent. This makes room for public exposure but only after direct confrontation has failed.
      I think of Jesus’ prayer in John 17 – His chief desire seemed to be unity so let’s consider this before publicly critiquing a brother.
      Thanks for your heart-felt post.

  10. Bobby says:

    Yes I agree with this however Paul also says this should be done within the body of Christ, also the process should start off in kindness and love with the motive to bring the one who is deviating back to the fold not calling them Satanists.

    Also in my opinion we should take our own doctrinal preference goggles off and be prepared to give those who differ the benefit of the doubt that their motives are good

    I have a huge problem with these ‘Exposers and the damage they are doing to young Christians who are not yet in the position to discern

    Setteleing doctrinal differences according to the scriptures
    There is nothing wrong with having a difference in doctrines even the apostles differed in sometimes major doctrines however how are we to treat each other within the body of Christ and even outside. How are we to settle disputes
    Well it is with Kindness and Gentleness
    Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.
    Philippians 4:5 NKJV The Greek word uses here is epieikēs or Moderation in the KJV this literally means gentle mild mannered Moderation and patience
    Notice that this is not only required within the body of Christ but to ALL men.
    Paul uses another greek word chrēstotēs as well which means Gentleness and good.
    We give no offense in anything, that our ministry may not be blamed. But in all things we commend ourselves as ministers of God: in much patience, in tribulations, in needs, in distresses, by purity, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by KINDNESS, by the Holy Spirit, by sincere love,
    II Corinthians 6:3-4, 6 NKJV
    Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, KINDNESS, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
    Colossians 3:12-13 NKJV
    interestingly the exact same word is used showing God’s kindness towards us

    But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
    Titus 3:4-5 NKJV
    And
    and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
    Ephesians 2:6-8 NKJV
    Philadelphia. Brotherly love kindness is the Greek word hupomonē meaning enduring patience and kindness if found in 2 Peter 1:6-8
    to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    II Peter 1:6-8 NKJV
    So is it scriptural to point out self righteous know it all fingers at our brethren and call them messangers of Satan just because they don’t comply with our traditions I DONT THINK SO

    • sanfords says:

      Yes! We can have a relationship even if we don’t agree. The bible is so full of seeming contradictions because it is living and balanced. It is not a textbook of formulas for truth or success. Faith is great but it is not a formula for success and it is not the only factor in success, whether that be healing or prosperity or discernment or whatever.
      I am very saddened to see WOF people who will only lecture and not listen. Proverbs says a fool despises instruction. If we think we know everything, the Bible also says we are in danger.

      Listen.

      Bear the burden of allowing the ideas of others to pierce your understanding enough to give it a fair evaluation.

      Test the ideas against the Word, and not against your ideas of the word – this is HARD to do!

      Seek God in prayer for guidance.

      Check your spirit – are you treating this person as you would want to be treated?

      Remember Jesus prayer for unity – we are to all be as one in Christ – that doesn’t mean we all agree but it does mean we all submit to the Word of God and the Holy Spirit and bear one-another’s burdens as we would want others to bear ours and even beyong that.

  11. Brian says:

    I agree with some of Justins points but if the Holy Spirit illuminates a scripture i an adding to a cannon? He just doesn’t seem to know the loving God that has been my friend for decades. His cripple is in his heart and i feel so sad for he and others who refuse a real friendship with the Holy spirit. He illuminates scripture and ” in the garden he tarries there as the hymn says. It takes discernment but the Creator God wants more of our time than we usually want to give him and has a lot to relate however he choses to do it. Justin cant hold him back. Too bad many Entertainers scared Justin away from a more intimatete personal friendship with his trinity. Blasheming about blasphemers is sin?

  12. Mike says:

    I appreciate your putting into words what I am feeling about Justin Peters. The division and assumption that only a handful of teachers are true and the rest are liars. So we must buy Peters’ books, which contain more than pure scripture???

  13. Molly says:

    I am so glad reading your piece here today after listening to some of Justin’s sermons. I also had difficulty with his assertion that the only way you can hear from God is only from scripture . Why are not impressions or hearing from the Lord on your heart not scriptural . His view of prayer does strike me as stiff. However I did appreciate what he had to say about misleading TV evangelists.

  14. samalabear says:

    My impression of Justin Peters’ website almost seems to indicate that calling others out is his raison d’etre. But it’s not just Peters, for sure, and the Calvinist websites calling out folks are many. It’s simply if someone is not a Calvinist you’re fair game.

  15. Jonathan says:

    Leave all the judging to God but leave your ears open to the truth dont be blinded to anyone make sure the teachings of any ministry lines up with the word of God.
    Going off on the preachers doesnt help it only gets people more curious. I realize there are alot of false teachers .But lets pray for them not keep using the same club to keep bashing .Jesus on the cross cried out forgive them Father for they know not what they do.He was forgiven the world the one’s who put him there .
    As for all the word of faith or any other preacher in the world will answer to God not Justin Peters

    • sanfords says:

      It really bugs me when people say to just line everything up with the word. The word is NOT as clear as many would believe. For example contrast Mark 9:40 (he who is not against us is for us) with Luke 9:50 (he that is not against us is for us). Now take these two together and figure out what this means. What do you do with someone that is neither for or against you? They must be both For AND Against you. ??? I’m not saying this to just pick apart the Bible but when you try to nail things down, it feels like jello on the wall. I don’t understand why the Bible does this, but maybe it has to do with it being a living word. It almost feels like as long as people don’t try to nail it down, they are cool. Justin Peters tries to nail it down, and it makes him look bad. Word of Faith people try to do the same thing – and it makes them look bad. Joel Olstein seems to be doing fine.

      • sanfords says:

        Not to say Joel is right, he’s just playing it safe. Nail it down in your heart and seek God with fear and trembling that you have it right and never stop listening for His correction.

  16. Barb says:

    I read all the Justin Peter’s article and Musings of a Rascal. Not an actual student of the bible, but have read much of it, etc. I find much of interest in both men. I, myself, was raised Catholic and to this day never felt I had to be saved from it, even though I haven’t attended much Sunday masses or services in many years. I believe in God the Father and Jesus, his son. My not going to church is more due to a sort of claustrophobic thing. Leave it at that. I pray a lot, asking and thanking God for whatever the need is and for the blessings he’s bestowed. I try not to hate a person, because I believe that’s a sin. Instead hate the act or sin they’ve committed. Not always easy. I have tried all my life not to use God’s name in vain and have succeeded pretty well. I’m far from holy and have committed my share of sins. I do believe in purgatory. I was raised that way, but I actually feel it in my heart. I believe in miracles, but I don’t think they come easily. Although I believe conception and life is a miracle in that sense. There are lots of everyday things that can be considered miracles, but I’m talking about in the spiritual sense and God coming down in someone’s living room and giving an amputee brand new human legs. These preachers getting rich off of spreading fear and lies is horrendous. So many have lost everything to this. In today’s world, people should know better but they don’t.

  17. Melissa Wolters says:

    Wow. This is what I have been searching for. Thank you. Praying the Lord directs me.

  18. Cindy says:

    Very well written except for the part that God wants us to walk in fear. I like how you annotated your blog post so you might want to include Gods definition of fear which is reverence, respect, awe, praise and worship. We’ve lost that in society and as a disabled person myself, having been in ministry (out of ignorance) in word of faith cults, now some 25 years cleansed of that deception, I believe God allows us to enter into such folly so that He can apprehend us in the midst…all so He can determine if we really are coming to Him out of love or if we’re coming to God just to get something. Much as I despise false doctrines, WOF is one which serves as a Refiners Fire. We might be badly burned and scarred, but our scars become marks of God’s Ownership and we are stronger in true faith as a result once we come through.

  19. Rod Saunders says:

    Justin Peters doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Either that or he lies a lot. I’ve caught him in dozens of cases misrepresenting WoF teaching and teachers. I’ve got four videos on YouTube refuting his stuff, and there’s more coming. Yes, the WoF movement has had error and excesses just like every other movement in church history, but you don’t defend the truth by spreading lies. JP is out of control and his groupies are only encouraging him.

    • sanfords says:

      Hey Rod, you should post links to those videos here. Also do you consider JP to be sincerely mistaken or maliciously evil? I think he is sincere. Nobody goes to that length for a lie. His handicap and disappointment in not being healed is likely driving him. This is why I don’t come down on him too hard. We are supposed to be a body that seeks justice AND mercy. Truth with love. Thanks for your honest comment!

    • Don Martin says:

      Hi, Rod,
      I checked the first video posted below.
      The Jew and Greek set the record straight on what pastors REALLY believe, not what JP MISTAKES them to believe.
      JandG was more cognizant of the history and details of peoples beliefs who were being accused.
      JP clearly has not done due diligence in his research, and again we see his hasty conclusions easily refuted.
      There us a lesson here to those who have a “ministry of criticism”. It is highly likely that a critical spirit and blind spots and prejudicial thinking will skew any truly objective evaluation, when you have a base agenda of coming against people.
      The odds of a corrupt evaluation is extremely high, as negative inertia takes a life if its own.
      I would urge JP: stop your attacks on your Christian brothers. You are getting it wrong too many times, and demonizing without sufficient cause.
      Learn to be an Ambassador, not an Attacker.

  20. Lorraine says:

    Im not a great bible scholar but Justin Peters is very being judgemental in my humble opinion.

  21. Andre Botha says:

    It wasn’t Joyce Meyer it was Gloria Copeland, And she clearly teaches that we have control of the weather. Her and her husband both preach new age heresies. Open your eyes and your heart.

  22. Don Martin says:

    Hey, Sanford,
    Hows it going? I have not seen my comment from this weekend posted yet. Did you find it objectionable?

    Thx.
    Don

    • sanfords says:

      Sorry Don, my email forwarding was broken and emails telling me of your comments were delayed.

    • sanfords says:

      Hey don, this is the only comment I have seen from you on my dashboard. Try re-posting your comment.

    • wofdefended says:

      Cessationism vs. Continuationism
      Cessationists believe that the spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the original twelve apostles.
      This is generally in opposition to ‘continuationism’, which teaches that the Holy Spirit may bestow the spiritual gifts on persons other than the original twelve apostles at any time.
      Ever since my conversion in the early seventies I was involved in many controversies, I will not blame anyone else because I am by nature an argumentative person, and a bit of a ‘know it all’. I find debating stimulating and was always filled with pride if I happened to win an argument or debate.
      I was converted through the ministry of our English teacher, (Mr. Andy Munroe) and immediately started evangelising and witnessing about my new found faith in Jesus Christ. This was a cessationist believing church.
      I was a Jehovah’s Witness before this and I was always interested in the scripture. I read my Bible diligently and was like a vacuum cleaner sucking it all in. Now as a believer with the Holy Spirit living in me I was became fanatical.
      Mr. Munroe started the Baptist church in town and things went well for two years. South Africa was governed by the ‘National Party’ who had very deep roots in the Dutch Reformed church. They are a very staunch Calvinistic church, and because of their predestination doctrinal beliefs, and their belief that babies are ‘born again’ at baptism; they rejected the need for evangelism and it went totally against the grain. The head master called us in and informed us that the youth bible studies and prayer meetings were to stop at the hostel immediately. At the same time the Baptist leadership replaced Mr. Munroe with a new pastor Rev. Ken Baxter who was a very staunch Calvinist. Mr. Munroe rejected the predestination doctrine and also refused to stop preaching the Gospel at school. Very quickly things unravelled and we were done. Mr. Munroe who was my mentor had been fired and we had to move the bible studies underground until we were caught and I was expelled from the hostel.
      My first contact with the Pentecostal Movement.
      During the peak of our mini revival I led a close friend ‘Brian’ to the Lord. He received the Gospel with gladness, he went home and promptly led his parents to the Lord. After the school holidays he came back to hostel full of joy and testified of his parent’s conversion.
      Then he told us that they had been to the ‘Assemblies of God’, church and that they had been baptised in the Holy Spirit with the evidence in ‘Speaking in Tongues’. I had read the bible by this time and knew about the day of Pentecost, but never understood much of it really. I had also started visiting different churches in the small town, and to be frank I was frightened by the, manifestation and emotionalism I witnessed in some of the Pentecostal churches.
      We went to Mr. Munroe for an explanation, being a cessationist he explained the Baptist point of view, him being my mentor I automatically accepted his point of view and using my talent for arguing and debating I totally destroyed the faith of my close friend. This ended up with our friendship ending.
      After I was expelled from the hostel I found board and lodgings with a family in town. Pat Andrews was in my class and her parents kindly took me in for my final year of high school. Pat too was in a Pentecostal church and we had many debates and arguments, but I stuck to my cessationist point of view. Fortunately she was stronger in her beliefs so this did not destroy her faith or our friendship
      After I left school I fell away and went back into the world for about four years. The Lord brought me back to Him, and strangely enough in a Pentecostal church. It was totally against my theology at the time but I did notice a love and power to be a witness amongst these people that I had never seen or experienced before.

      Now I was confused because my beliefs and my experiences did not match, I went to the word of God, but this time I took my cessationist glasses off and the Holy Spirit revealed to me that I had been wrong on many points for many years.

      Now the debate between cessationist and continueist theology still rages today. It is ugly, really ugly; believers who are supposed to love each other spend most of their time and effort condemning each other publically and unashamedly.

      This is a great pity, I have been in both camps, and I have seen the good and bad in both camps. Cessationist theology with the emphasis on Sola Scriptura, (Scripture Alone), has its good points, but I found them to intellectualise the word too much. Often during discussions and debates; they would keep on referring to the original Greek and Hebrew text. I also found that if they would be debating a non-scholar; they would smell blood and the claws would come out.

      Many of them have in large a very aloof attitude and arrogantly look down and anyone who dare enter into a debate without being a scholar in Greek and Hebrew.

      Then again the perception is, that continueist churches rely totally on emotional experiences, and then try and eiseges the word by looking for scripture to back up their experience. I believed this when I was young and was in cessationist circles.

      After my profound experience with the Holy Spirit, I found the opposite to be true, I met with many Pentecostal scholars, I studied part time at a full Gospel theological college, the exegesis of scripture I found in the text books, and their course on Systematic Theology; I found to be as deep, if not deeper than any other I had read on the cessationist side.

      Within this debate we find a huge rift between the cessationist sector, and the Charismatic churches, in particular the Word of Faith mega churches. It is now clear on which side I favour, however I will not stand in judgement of cessationist believers. Salvation is established in the belief in Christ not in the manner in which we worship.

      The severe name calling I have found all over the internet is very disturbing. It seems to me that there are thousands of people who believe that their sole mission in life is to ‘Expose’ false teachers and prophets and to publically name and shame them. I personally do not see this as normative in the Bible, Paul only mentioned three people by name three times in all his writings.

      I call this a cult, and I believe that it is doing irreparable harm to the body of Christ; I personally have dealt with countless babes in Christ who are being hurt, and filled with fear and condemnation over this issue. I am not saying that everything the Word of Faith, (WOF) teaches is doctrinally correct, in my opinion many of their more outlandish doctrines are error. I will discuss their controversial doctrines a little further on. What I do want to say is that the fundamentals of Christianity must be intact. These being at least:

      a) The infallibility of the Bible as the Holy Spirit inspired, inherent Word of God

      b) The Sovereignty of the Creator of everything, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that these three are co-eternal and equal in deity, dignity and power.

      c) The deity of Jesus Christ; and the virgin birth

      d) The fall of Adam, introducing sin into the world making it necessary for a Saviour

      e) The substitutionary atonement. Death, burial, bodily resurrection and imminent return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

      f) Saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

      Anything else is secondary; I find no scripture that being a continuationist makes you a heretic or an apostate. Neither do I find one scripture saying that being a cessationist makes you a heretic or an apostate. I have confronted many of the more aggressive members of the ‘Exposers Cult’, firstly asking them to cease the continuous bombardment of hate posts against any of the body of Christ. The reaction I received was shocking, I have been called a heretic, devil worshiper, son of Satan, usually mixed in with a bunch of swear words.
      When I confront them; about their divisiveness with scriptures like First Corinthians. The first chapter or the anti- argument scriptures like Titus3:9 and 2 Tim. 2:23. I have only received really nasty responses. I must admit that at first ‘my must win argumentative nature’ kicked into top gear and I spent many hours posting responses to their so called righteous exposing posts. Well the Holy Spirit did speak to me and told me that I can’t criticize them when I am playing the same game, if stopping stupid arguments is valid for them it is valid for me as well. After all it takes two to argue. However saying that; I still see much damage being done by this ‘cult’ activities.
      What I have noticed that on YouTube they all seem to copy the same video clips of WOF preachers supposedly exposing false heretical doctrines. Many of these clips are ten to twenty second bites where all context of the actual message has been removed. Even the same pictures showing the faces of the leaders are copied and posted over and over again. The major attacks are against Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer, and TD Jakes. Then to a lesser extent Paula White, Andrew Womack, Joseph Prince, John Hagee and even Billy Graham believe it or not.
      Now do these leaders teach some error? Of course they do! I don’t believe that there is any teacher or preacher in the world since the age of the Apostles who at some point in their life preached some form of error. How else would we grow in knowledge if we do not make mistakes? Or why would it be necessary to ask god for wisdom as James commanded if we have total wisdom from the beginning?
      I for one; have changed my theology about certain secondary doctrines and teachings, many times in my walk with the Lord, Sometimes to come out of error and sometimes I fell into error. The Holy Spirit has always been faithful to bring me back to the path he wants me to be on, so I try not to rely on what people are teaching, but it does give me confidence to examine different things, and let the Lord teach me what things I should leave and what things I can hold onto. “Prove (Examine) all things; hold fast that which is good.” [1 Thes5:21]
      Here are a few verses the ‘Exposer Cult’ uses to justify their (what I call wicked hurtful) agenda:
      “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” [Romans 16:17-18] I find it very ironical that they would use this verse, because I have found that it is actually the “Exposers’ themselves who are causing the division and offending a large portion of the body of Christ.
      “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” [Colossians 2:8] Here the Apostle Paul is in the first place telling us to beware or be careful of these so called false teachers not to expose them to the whole world. Secondly, maybe some of them are vain, deceit has hardly been proven, but traditions of men; really! If anything WOF leaders are completely opposite rather accuse them of being too weird.
      “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” [2 Timothy 4:3-4]. This now is an interesting one, Firstly ‘Sound Doctrine’ who’s sound doctrine, Martin Luther’s, John Calvin’s, John Wesley’s, Reformed Theology, Arminianist Theology Anabaptists? The list goes on and on. All of the above disagree fundamentally with each other on major issues, however I have noticed that they will put their differences aside and come together to attack WOF leaders.
      “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove. [Ephesians 5:11] Really! ‘Unfruitful’ do these people do any research at all? This is the fastest growing sector of the body of Christ according to statistics from a study we find that, There were six hundred and thirty one million Pentecostals in 2014 comprising nearly a quarter of all Christians. There were only sixty three million Pentecostals in 1970, and the number is expected to reach eight hundred million by 2025.Two thirds of Pentecostals are in the majority world. Classic Pentecostalism only accounts for four percent of North America and two percent of Europe (though that percentage would be higher if you only counted those who attend church regularly) [The Growth of Global Pentecostalism [Wheaton Theology Conference April 16, 2014 by Marc Cortez] Then we get to the ‘works of darkness’, part this is completely laughable if it were not so tragic, besides the few ‘fringe’ doctrines and some seemingly weird experiences, most if not all the WOF leaders preach the fundamental doctrines as listed above. 

      “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” [Matthew 7:15] This one is the most common verse used to ‘Expose’ anyone that does not believe exactly as them, and I believe the most inappropriate one, let me tell you why let us look at the context “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?” [Matthew 7:16] By the ‘Exposers’ standards the entire charismatic movement are wolves in sheep’s clothing all six hundred and thirteen millions of us. All of this because we are so many so the obviously we must be the one on the broad road, so it must me about mathematics, not about God’s grace or His saving power. So in this flock there are more wolves than sheep.
      In the parable of the narrow gate he is describing both a transition (the gate) and a way of life (the road): the gate to life is narrow, and the path hard, and few find it. Jesus is addressing Jews, and arguably his disciples, so he is contrasting true discipleship with first-century Judaism. Is it possible that Jesus is referring specifically to his Jewish contemporaries, saying only few of them will follow him and those who do; will face opposition from other Jews? Is it also possible, then that we too quickly apply this to modern Christian life? What gives us the liberty to take these words out of context and apply them to 20th-century Gentile converts who haven’t once set foot inside a synagogue?
      Now as for the false prophets, yes there are false prophets! But how do we discern who is and who is not a false prophet. When I first got saved there was not much talk of false prophets, well not in my small circle of fellowship, in 1978 when I was baptised in the Holy Spirit it was around that time that the Jim Jones tragedy happened. Straight away some of my cessationist critics blamed the Pentecostal movement because one of the names he used for his cult church was ‘Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel’ and he once shared a pulpit with Rev. William M. Branham, a healing evangelist and religious author at the time as highly revered as Oral Roberts. William M. Branham was a Oneness Pentecostal evangelist (also called the ‘Jesus Only Movement). However Jones was a voracious reader as a child and studied Joseph Stalin, Karl Marx, Mao Zedong, Mahatma Gandhi and Adolf Hitler carefully. He was more affiliated to the Methodist Church and the Seventh Day Baptist Church than any other.
      My point is Jones was a false prophet, but does that fact make the Methodist, and Baptist churches false churches, well if not why then the Pentecostal’s. It makes no sense; it’s like shooting sparrows with a shot gun.
      What made Jim Jones a dangerous cult leader and a false prophet; well it was obviously his doctrinal differences with orthodox fundamental Christian doctrines which I listed above. Here is what really was going on.
      “According to religious studies professor Catherine Wessinger, while Jones always spoke of the social gospel’s virtues, before the late 1960s Jones chose to conceal that his gospel was actually communism. By the late 1960s, Jones began at least partially openly revealing the details of his “Apostolic Socialism” concept in Temple sermons. Jones also taught that “those who remained drugged with the opiate of religion had to be brought to enlightenment which was socialism” .Jones often mixed these ideas, such as preaching that, “If you’re born in capitalist America, racist America, fascist America, and then you’re born in sin. But if you’re born in socialism, you’re not born in sin.”
      By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding traditional Christianity as “fly away religion”, rejecting the Bible as being a tool to oppress women and non-whites, and denouncing a “Sky God” who was no God at all. Jones wrote a booklet titled “The Letter Killeth”, criticizing the King James Bible. Jones also began preaching that he was the reincarnation of Mahatma Gandhi, Father Divine, Jesus, Gautama Buddha and Vladimir Lenin. Former Temple member Hue Fortson, Jr. quoted Jones as saying, “What you need to believe in is what you can see … If you see me as your friend, I’ll be your friend. As you see me as your father, I’ll be your father, for those of you that don’t have a father … If you see me as your savior; I’ll be your savior. If you see me as your God, I’ll be your God.”
      In a 1976 phone conversation with John Maher, Jones alternately stated that he was an agnostic and an atheist. Despite the Temple’s fear that the IRS was investigating its religious tax exemption, Marceline Jones admitted in a 1977 New York Times interview that Jones was trying to promote Marxism in the United States by mobilizing people through religion, citing Mao Zedong as his inspiration. She stated that, “Jim used religion to try to get some people out of the opiate of religion”, and had slammed the Bible on the table yelling “I’ve got to destroy this paper idol!” In one sermon, Jones said that, “You’re gonna help yourself, or you’ll get no help! There’s only one hope of glory; that’s within you! Nobody’s gonna come out of the sky! There’s no heaven up there! We’ll have to make heaven down here!” [Wikipedia]
      There are many other ‘Christian based’ cults and false prophet leaders like David Koresh of the Branch Davidians religious sect, Father Divine of the International Peace Mission movement, I can go on and on. Most of them were linked to some form of recognized church at some time or other. However if you study their statements of faith it is very plain to see where they start straying away from the Bible.
      I must point out that I do not find a really strong accountability order within the movement. In South Africa most Charismatic churches ascribe to the International Federation of Charismatic Churches (IFCC) and the major Pentecostal denominations fall under the umbrella of their own leadership. In South Africa, the major Pentecostal denominations are the Apostolic Faith Mission (AFM) The Full Gospel Church of God (FGC) the Assemblies of God (AOG) and the Pentecostal Protestant Church (PPC)
      WOF denominations for a long time were dominated by Rhēma Bible Church, and Christian family Church, (formally Christian City). However since then many new movements have been launched, primarily sprouting from these, the two most noteworthy is the Rivers Ministries, and the CRC with Pastors At and Nyretta Boshoff
      Now let’s see what the official WOF doctrines are: This is there official Statement of Faith: which is adhered to by the majority of WOF and Charismatic leaders.
      We believe that when we repent, confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord, and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead that we are now justified by His blood, and shall be saved from wrath through Him.(Romans5:9,&Romans10:9-10) 

      [We believe that we are new creatures made righteous with Christ’s righteousness, which is not of ourselves. We are neither “unworthy new creatures” nor “sinners saved by grace”. We were once sinners, but now we are saved by grace; our spirits born again, created in righteousness and true holiness; Sons of God, and joint heirs with Jesus.(2 Corinthians 5:17, Philippians 3:9, Ephesians 2:5-8, Ephesians 4:24, Galatians 4:6, Romans 8:17)
      We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification as a definite, yet progressive work of grace, commencing at the time of regeneration, and continuing until the consummation of salvation at Christ’s return. (John 17:17-19)

      We believe the Baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift from God to all believers in this dispensation. It is received separately from the new birth, and is accompanied by the ability to speak in other tongues, as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance. (John15:26,Acts2:4)

      We believe that water baptism should be by immersion in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It is a symbol of the Christian’s identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. (Matthew 3:16, Romans 6:1-4)

      We believe prosperity is always God’s will for all believers; for the whole person, spirit, soul, and body. The Lord has pleasure in the prosperity of those who serve Him. (3 John 1:2, Psalm 35:27)

      We believe divine healing is always God’s will for all believers; for the whole person, body, soul, and spirit, and is wrought by the power of God. Jesus healed all who were oppressed of the devil. (Acts10:38, 1 Peter 2:24)

      We believe that all of the Promises of God are always yes and amen, never that they are provided for in the atonement of Christ, and are the privilege of every member of the Body of Christ today who will receive them by faith. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

      We believe that the faith to receive any of the Promises of God comes from hearing God’s Word alone; that God’s Word is alive and powerful, and every Promise therein contains the faith of God, sufficient to bring itself to pass in the life of any person who believes His Promise in their heart, and confesses it with their mouth. What God has so wonderfully provided by His grace we receive by faith. (Romans 10:17, Hebrews 4:12)

      We believe that in all things pertaining to life on earth, God is the Author of all that is good; it is only the devil who comes to steal, kill and destroy. God never tempts us, nor uses any element of the curse (Deut. 28) to teach us; He only teaches us by His Holy Spirit revealing to us, the truth of His Holy Word. (John 10:10, James 1:13, Psalm 119:105, John 16:13, Deuteronomy 28) 

      We believe God gave all mankind free will and dominion over the world that we live in; and gave all Christians His kingdom authority and power, to walk as Sons of God, in the steps of Jesus, Who was our example in all things. By way of the leading of the Holy Spirit, we are to take dominion over circumstances and situations, and enforce His Covenant Promises on earth, through the power of His Words spoken out of our mouth. We believe that when we speak in full agreement with His Word, we can have what we ask. (John 1:12, Mark 11:22-24, Luke 9:1, James 4:7, 1 John 3:22)

      We believe Jesus, in His life and ministry on earth, demonstrated God’s perfect will for the earth in all matters for all time. He was made to be sin for us, and was spiritually separated from the presence of the Father on the cross in our place; He descended into hell, was raised up by God the Father, loosed from the pains of death, and was the firstborn from the dead. (John 14:9-12, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34, Acts 2:24, Colossians 1:18)

      We believe that all scripture, comprised of the 66 Books of the Bible (no apocrypha) from Genesis to Revelation, is the Word of God, and is our final authority over all else for determining faith and practice.] paraphrased from the universal Charismatic / Pentecostal statement of faith.
      Now for most reformed theologians and some other cessationist theologians the sections about the Holy Spirit will be regarded as false doctrines, however they will only seem false because of traditional doctrinal difference, not because of Biblical reasons.

      I for one believe that the cessationist doctrines are false and not ‘Sola Scriptura’, however I do not see the attack from Charismatic churches calling all of reformed churches a cult of Holy Spirit denying non-Christians. Whereas the internet is full of teachers like John MacArthur and Justin Peters building their whole career on writing books; and doing presentations apparently ‘Exposing’ WOF teachers. It is a great pity because their talents could be utilised so much better by just preaching the Gospel.

      • sanfords says:

        I appreciate your thoughts however this 4287 word essay does not fit well with the discussion simply because of its length and breadth. Responding to this post will be problematic in that you put so much into a single comment that responses will fragment into a mess. However, I hate to muzzle an honest response and I appreciate your points. Provisionally approved depending on what fruit this creates on the subject.

      • wofdefended says:

        I appreciate you publishing my lengthy post and to be honest I was lazy and merely extracted it from a book I wrote two years ago I apologise, however I do emphasize that the thoughts therein are my own and still my honest opinion but I take your point and will be more careful to stay on message in future

      • sanfords says:

        Ok let’s not post books here. If you want to, just put up a link.

      • sanfords says:

        This phrase doesn’t make sense to me:
        We believe that all of the Promises of God are always yes and amen, never that they are provided for in the atonement of Christ,…
        God promised curses in the Torah for those that don’t obey. This would seem to contradict those scriptures. This also seems to contradict the biblical point that the reformers use that we are lost and dead in sin until met by the Grace of God through the atonement of Christ.
        Really this kind of question is far from the point of the original post and perhaps this question, like your broad post, will begin to pull this discussion far from its original tree of thought.
        The above point I believe is a WOF weakness. God is Love and love made hell.
        Do you agree with this faith point?

  23. Chelsea Tang says:

    I have just started listening to a few of Justin Peters messages n in fact was led to this page by typing ‘Does JP preach on anything else apart from the word-faith movement?’ I like your ‘objective/neutral’ (?) stand. He does expose a lot of wrong teachings but yes, I do think that sometimes he takes an extreme stand. For example when someone said God spoke to me n did not say it’s for everyone, JP denounces it!

  24. Don Martin says:

    I find Mr.Peters presentation to be critically flawed and lacking in due process in deriving his conclusions, similar to some of your thoughts on this.
    When one chooses to come against other people of claimed Christian beliefs, you put yourself in the arena of judging others, and the Bible has lots to say about that.

    JUDGING OTHERS – RISKY BUSINESS
    Firstly, the biblical principle of being truthful demands integrity of information and process, with proper attitude (e.g., respect, humility) and motive.

    Matt 7 says that how we judge, we will be judged. Matt 12:36 says that we will be held accountable in the judgment for EVERY IDLE WORD we speak.
    This alone should make us shudder at the possibility of harming other believers in how we judge/misjudge people with negative words.

    Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile (Psalm 34:13)

    Furthermore, James 1 says that teachers are held unaccountable to a higher standard. We would do well to consider if our own theological position is necessily correct, and Ask: Are alternate views necessarily deserving of condemnation or contempt (e.g., because of “camp mentality”).

    I would rather keep my mouth shut, rather than propogate hastily or incorrectly derived accusations.

    If there is a concern about someones teaching, YES, by all means, state it. But position it properly. Too many Correctors of the Brethren have adopted polarizing and presumptive analysis, that only propogates needless division.

    UNITY AND DISCORD
    We have to consider that unity of the body is paramount to God (Jn 14:21). Propogation of division/discord is one of six things that God hates (Prov 6:19).

    This means that we should make every effort to ensure that we evaluate others theological positions with charity, making every effort to make sure we are not falsely accusing, or exaggerating or otherwise abusing others views in a way that leads to discord.

    The words of the reckless pierce like swords, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. Prov 16:18

    PROCESS IS PARAMOUNT
    Again I say, due process is paramount. All too often, the approach of a “heresy hunter” is to take a pastors “sound bite” out of context, misconstrue what the speaker meant, and label them as a heretic.
    This can harm the Body of Christ, despite good intentions of keeping integrity to the Word.

    We need to have the academic integrity and discipline to rise above prejudicial “camp mentality”, and get the realization that theology is not as entirely direct in concept and practice as, say, mathematics.

    It is quite derivational, where PROCESS and even PREJUDICES define the PRODUCT.

    I like your conment about Greyness of peoples theological knowledge. It is really true. We make the best fit approximation we can based on the biblical dots, and the result can vary.

    This calls for grace, love and commitment to find common ground – there is more there than many think!
    Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

  25. wofdefended says:

    all the ‘We believe Paragraph’ in my post were paraphrased from the universal Charismatic / Pentecostal statement of faith as noted they were in Parentheses The actual point I was trying to make; rather cumbersomely was that even the so called ‘false teachers’ of the WOF have sound scripture to back up their beliefs. No I am not totally sold on ALL of their doctrines as I do not believe that I have reached the summit of biblical authority.
    Everyone claims that they are the true Interpreters of scripture and only they have divine revelation or use good exegesis standards, however for the most part I believe we are all floundering and when the Lord returns we will be humbled when we fully understand God’s wisdom and infinite grace. “For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known.’ 1Corr13:12 ESV

  26. nicycuffy says:

    Justin Peters does not preach the word of God. Jesus said he gave us dominion and power of everything… God said when he returns will he find faith. So technically he is calling God a liar. It’s no ones fault if he’s sick and his faith didn’t heal him. There are many people who can testify that believing they were healed got healing. This guy is preaching doctrines of devils, and those who believe him are fools. The bible said there shall be a great falling away of the saints, meaning some Christians will start to believe in other things than Gods true word.

    • sanfords says:

      And what is the lie Justin is accusing God of? Saying he would give us dominion over everything yet Justin was not healed? This is a hard saying. Jesus does promise in Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. – is that the verse you were referring to? It requires belief but we have other scriptures that require more: James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. and James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
      Also, what does one do if person A asks for X and person B asks for NOT X? Can both be granted if both have faith? Obviously, only one can be God’s will – it is the way He made things – the law of non-contradiction.
      You accuse Justin of preaching doctrines of devils – this is the very thing the pharisee’s preached about Jesus and they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit by doing so.
      Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
      I am always very fearful of accusing others of false doctrine – it is the trait of our adversary and the Bible is difficult to interpret in many respects of doctrine. Let God be the judge and let us:
      John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
      Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
      Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
      1 Peter 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
      1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
      1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
      Justin is calling Word Of Faith’ers preachers of false doctrine just as you are accusing him of doing. What good fruit do you hope to gain by this accusation brother?

      Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
      23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

w

Connecting to %s